Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: Hey. Hey. Welcome back to Working Out God. I'm Toyin, and I'm here again with Beulah. And today we have a special guest, Dr. C. Susan Raju Paul, the CEO of Vision Rescue. And we're continuing exploring faith on the front lines in this season. So we'll be chatting to Susan today and just hearing her insights on her journey. Welcome, Susan, to the podcast. Thank you so much for being with us today.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: Thank you, Toyin and Beulah, for having me. It's been a blessing.
[00:00:48] Speaker C: I was just gonna say I'm so pumped to have this conversation with you, Susan, and so grateful to you and for the time that you're giving to speak to us and to share your story with all our listeners. So I'm going to kick off because I know very little bit about your stories, but I'm really keen to explore this further.
And I'm just going to throw in a couple of headlines, actually, which is, you know, you're a doctor, you're a scientist, a researcher over there in Boston in America, and now you find yourself in India. Or why don't you tell us a little bit more about this journey, what your past work and career look like and how is it that you've ended up in Mumbai in the last couple of years? What's brought you here?
[00:01:35] Speaker A: So how I ended up in Mumbai, it was not a choice. But to continue in Mumbai has been a choice, though.
So I was born in the southern state of India called Kerala, grew up in Dubai, and after that came down again to India for my medical studies. Once my medical studies were done, I wanted further for higher studies. I went to Boston, but the aim was to start off and do a residency. But what had happened was I switched to a research track and was very happy, loved the lab that I was working in in between because of a visa change need. Somewhere in 2020, I had to come down to India for that was just supposed to be for two years to meet a certain need from the Indian government to be on Indian soil. But long story short, after two years, I decided to continue. So the choice to come to Mumbai was not mine, but the choice to continue in Mumbai is mine.
[00:02:37] Speaker C: Right. Okay. Okay. And how long were you in the States doing the research and that fellowship and that track?
[00:02:46] Speaker A: Yes. So in total, between the tourist visas and doing a lot of observerships, trips and everything, it was about eight years, but I did five years of research fellowship with Mass General Hospital.
[00:02:59] Speaker C: Wow. Okay. And so two years, you're back in India, and then when you said the Choice is yours.
What choice is it that you've made?
[00:03:09] Speaker A: So that was a big one.
I've been in research. I was very happy. I loved the immunology work that we were doing. Love being part of the clinical work because it gave it intellectually stimulated me the curiosity that was there. At the same time, it was not something where you would find an answer that was not useful. It was finding answers that would help patients immediately.
Absolutely love that job. And then I was asked the question of, do you want to look at something not medically, but helping people who may be underprivileged, who are vulnerable situations, and children in those situations to help them with education? So when I looked at it, I thought about it for four years. I was like, what qualification do I have?
For about four months, what qualification do I have? I don't really have anything in the social work field. Prayed about it, volunteered. And then I realized I've had the opportunity to be in leadership in management for a while. And I was like, okay, let's do that.
I can possibly get into this field. Yes.
[00:04:14] Speaker C: Okay. Okay. And then did that transition, did that feel like it was a risk or was it more of a surrender to what this next chapter or the next calling for you look like?
[00:04:29] Speaker A: So the transition was surprisingly one of the easiest things.
While it was at the same time a hard decision for me to make. The cost was not in saying yes. The cost was in continuing with the yes. And that happened much later on.
So the reason for that, God actually worked in my heart to be able to say this yes over the last couple of years.
So I didn't. That transition did not come with a price for me because he had already done the due diligence of working in my heart to be okay with saying yes to this, if that made sense.
[00:05:11] Speaker C: It does. But for our listeners, what does that look like? Like, what was that work that you think God did in your heart, in. In you.
In terms of preparing you for. From, you know, a scientific background and career to the work that you're currently doing?
[00:05:30] Speaker A: So when I was asked this question of do you want to transition or would you like to transition from the medical field, from the research field, into social impact?
The first. The biggest question I had was how could I actually make an impact?
So when I looked back on my journey, one of the things that got had been very kind enough to do was he placed mentors in my life through all the seasons. So when I look back, when I was asked this question, I took about three or four months to answer yes or no. And in the meantime, I volunteered with the organization just to understand what exactly was happening. It will also give me insight into where I could step in and probably plug in some issue, plug in any gaps that were there.
So in that season, I. I also look back at what God had placed in my life, at what God had sown into my life over the years. And one of the biggest things was mentors. Mentors who taught me a big thing would be learning how to learn. Another would be how to be a good leader.
All of which then helped me set up for my next season where I had to learn what social work was. At the same time, I was also leading a. A large number of people within a very short period of time.
So I think as I was preparing, looking back and seeing God's kindness in setting me up helped me say yes for the next step.
Does that answer the question?
[00:07:08] Speaker C: It really does. It really does. And I think, you know, because you said something about when you were reflecting and you were, like you said, about leadership and you've talked about the mentors, this was a question that we were going to ask a bit further down, but actually, can you tell us or share with us, you know, how your leadership style has been impacted or shaped by your mentors, by the work that you've been involved in, by your faith, and even what you're kind of learning along the way as a CEO as well?
[00:07:42] Speaker A: Yes, definitely. So I've been blessed with leaders from a very young age.
My grandfather, my mom's dad, he was a leader in the community. So not a politician, but just he was a principal of a college. So in that. Right, he was a leader and he was the head of his home. And how he taught his children and his grandchildren, myself included, that has had an impact on me. So one of the things that I saw, I call him. I finally call him Daddy. So what. One of the things that he showed me at a young age was those who you work with should not be people who you just give directions to, but should be people who willingly choose to walk with you.
Now, the day I realized this was not when I was young and my grandfather was giving me these lessons. It was actually, ironically, on the day he passed away.
So his children were okay because he had taught them very early on that earth is just a journey and heaven is your home.
But what I had seen was there were people who worked with him who were crying, and I was like, wow, okay. How is it that people who are not blood are so impacted and love this man so much so his life, his leadership is something that impacted me after that, all through life, even in college, especially at my workplace in Boston.
One of my mentors, he was my boss. He still is in some capacity.
Mark was very good in being gracious. I remember once when I was much younger, he would tell me, he's like, Susan, you expect people to change 100%, but if they have met you at the 75% mark, you should be grateful for that.
So he was somebody who gave a lot of grace.
He was able to identify the gold in people and try and pick them up from that state and teach them more. He gave me opportunities as a young fellow that I probably should not have gotten. He entrusted me with responsibilities which allowed me to grow my capacity.
And elastic band, never, unless you stretch it, it'll not. The elasticity does not go further. Right. So having mentors who stretch you is such a blessing. So I think I have learned from all of them and I pretty much have the same way of operating when it comes to my leadership.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Yeah, that was really good. Thank you, Susan. I wanted to jump in here with a follow up and I was just wondering what maybe was the most challenging leadership moment you've potentially had so far in your current role?
[00:10:31] Speaker A: So my current role is a little unique in the fact that I've taken on from a founder and also I am leading in a country different from the one that I've been raised to or have worked in thus far. So there are cultural nuances that come with it.
So probably the hardest challenge I faced is in the founder to next person leadership.
So getting the buy in of people, making sure that they understand that you do carry the same vision, that has probably been one of the most challenging things for me.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: And how as well, do you feel like God has like helped you, I guess, or been in amongst this and helping you in this, in the challenges that you face in that respect.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: I think oftentimes we try to fill shoes, but we're not really called to fill any shoes. We're actually called to walk in our own shoes.
And that comes with security in who we are in, in Christ. In my case, I'm a Christian. So in my faith, knowing who I am in Christ enables me to walk in my shoes with my skill sets that he has given me, with the strengths that he has given me, and with a team that surrounds me.
So my faith has empowered me in the fact that I understand what my skill set is and I've been able to then go towards, okay, I don't need to fill someone else's shoe.
I just need to walk in my own shoe. And people will figure out along the way, or will see along the way that it fits me better.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I guess as well, I thought, just for the listeners who may be. You don't know much about the work because we've briefly touched on what Vision Rescue is. Do you mind just sharing a little bit more about the work, the mission, just a bit more detail, I guess, about what you guys do as a company?
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Sure. So Vision Rescue is a nonprofit that works with children in the slums of Mumbai, largely, and you also have in a few other locations. What we work with is healthcare, helping children be in education, have the desire for education.
At the same time, work with their families so that they're able to continue in education. So it comes under engaging a child and thereafter sustaining that child in education by working with their family, their schools, and their communities at large. The goal is that this child, if they are able to complete their education, then they will likely not be in poverty and be able to move their family towards what would be called as intergenerational transformation.
[00:13:33] Speaker C: Susan, I have had the opportunity to know more about the work that you're doing on the ground and sometimes the scale of the need, not just in Mumbai or in India, but right across the world. Today, with everything that's going on, it can feel, and it does feel so overwhelming. How do you, as you know, in a role of leadership, in a pivot that you've taken from, you know, science into social impact, how do you process this kind of overwhelming scale of need with your own faith, with your own walk with God and stay motivated and stay anchored in what you're called to do in this season of your life.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: So I think one of the biggest things I've had to learn was I'm not God. So I'm definitely not going to be able to take care of every need that exists in this world, not just in the community that I'm in or the nation or the state, but around the globe. I cannot take care of every need. So if I can surrender that to Christ, then I become useful in my immediate community.
And I think that's very well reflected in acts. When it says, go from Jerusalem to Judea to Samaria, first take care of your people, like social impact in your world. The man that may be downstairs, if we can take care of him, if we can take care of the neighbor across the road, if you can take care of the homeless person down the road, then that becomes Something that's addressable and surrendering the larger problem to the Lord.
Right. Yeah.
[00:15:20] Speaker C: This is something actually very similar to what Ralph shared as well, which is actually, you know, what is in front of you and what you can do and get involved in, you know, do that part and that all of us are on the front line in, in some shape or form. And, you know, last year when we had a conversation, you know, you were talking about, you know, you love data and, you know, you're a very kind of analytical person and then, you know, talking about, like, how do you track, you know, the. The outcome? So talk us through then. What does faithfulness and what does good outcomes look like in social impact and at vision rescue, when sometimes, you know, the outcomes that can be quite slow or can be unseen or not tangible in the way that we'd like to see them recorded or quite uncertain. So, yeah, how do you. When you're doing all this work and you're putting your best foot forward, how do you stay encouraged? How do you encourage the team and the people that you're leading that actually, you know, outcomes can look very different in this line of work when it comes to social impact and you're working with vulnerable communities, with the organization we're
[00:16:32] Speaker A: always looking at, okay, what is the best activity that we can do to address our vision, our mission, and our goal at large? And we, every year we'll go back, we'll review and see if this awareness program helped in, for example, improving hygiene in the family, if this awareness program helped in fathers being more present for their children. So looking at, looking back allows you to correct and addressing forward. But I think our team at large is very good at understanding that a mindset shift and a shift like this takes a couple of years.
So in the immediate run, the data is used more to see if the activities that we are currently doing should be something we should do in the future or if we should correct it so as to address needs in a better way.
[00:17:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
And do you mind sharing at the moment, what do you think the biggest realities or needs are facing the children and the communities that you're serving at the moment that people might not realize as well? Like, is there anything that people don't see about poverty or don't realize about poverty or exploitation that you could shed some insight into?
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Sure. I think if you look at anywhere in the world, like, wherever I've had the opportunity to go, whether it's in Boston or in India or just about any other part of the world that I've been able to visit. If you are born to a family where, say your parents do not have education and or are unskilled in some way, the amount of income coming in becomes lesser. And so by way of that, you end up living a certain life.
So that life, it doesn't mean it's always bad.
Sometimes that means you can't go further beyond a certain point. So that's where you have how do you live a better life? Which can lead to other issues. Right? So the challenge, I think that we in general face that around the globe it's pretty much the same. And I think all of us have probably heard this in the Christian world we've heard this line before, which is getting Egypt out of a person is harder than getting them out of Egypt. So you may be able to provide a person who is poor with a home, but unless you're able to change the mindset with which they function, they will still be a poor person in a four bedroom house.
So the hardest part is about changing our mindset. And being able to accomplish that is not just a one year task. It's actually a couple of years of working one on with those families that I answer the question.
[00:19:32] Speaker C: You did, you did, absolutely. I'm just counting on my fingers how many times I have heard, you know, that the saying about, you know, you can leave Egypt but still have Egypt within you. And that kind of mindset, you know, what we've heard in our Christian circles. But Susan, you know, for anyone, for someone, you know, listening, who feels deeply moved by injustice, but not necessarily this is their kind of full time role or their, you know, they're not actually, that's not their career.
What would you say to them, you know, like, how can you and I, well, not you because you're already. But how can I, how can you know, my colleagues, how can people at my church, how come, you know, people that I do life with, how can we get involved in social impact and what does that look like on a practical level for people who are not on the front line?
[00:20:29] Speaker A: I think of all the questions that you had sent me, this was probably my favorite.
Because each of us have an opportunity to be able to take care of the widow, the orphan, the homeless person right next to us as a parent.
What can you do? Is the question when you have a little child. So I'll go with my story. My mom and dad, they were very good from a young age. Even though I grew up in Dubai, I didn't grow up unaware of what was happening in other parts of the world. So my mom, either through books, reading autobiographies, understanding how people came out, she made me aware of how people were able to. How people lived towards education and were able to step out of a situation they were in. They made sure to give us opportunities as kids. So as parents, if you can give your children opportunities over your summer break, one or two weeks, you raise children then become. You raise children who are able to think about their neighbor, think about the widow, think about the orphan.
Then the second thing that I want to talk about is so from this, from the Bible, the story of Joseph. Joseph was in the palace, but he was given a strategy about how to address famine. Now, famine will always first impact the poorer class of society.
He was, because he was so connected to the Lord, he was able to get a strategy that helped policy at a government level in Egypt, so to speak. This is. We're talking about Old Testament Egypt, not the current day Egypt. Obviously, this is thousands and thousands of years back.
So in each of our roles, we can find ways to be of impact if we actually tune in and listen. There's always the thing about financially giving as well. To whichever organization that you believe, whichever charity you believe is doing some good work, you can definitely give. But I would also say if once a year or twice a year, if you can be close to the problem, you would probably palpate the heart of God a lot better than if you were to just give regularly.
[00:22:48] Speaker C: So you would encourage. You would encourage people to go volunteer, go get involved, go into the communities and yeah, roll up your sleeve and get involved.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: Yes, in whatever capacity you can. Because I think when we get involved, we also realize the problem a little better.
We realize that we have skill sets that we'll be able to use in those areas.
You don't necessarily need to be a case counselor to be addressing social impact. You could be someone making policy at a national level and still doing social impact because you affect how grains reach the poor, you affect how water reaches the poor.
So if you can be volunteering in society, if you can be volunteering in your local nonprofit, wherever that is, I think you would definitely see. I think we would all definitely see a lot more what the need is up front.
Otherwise, it's always the need as someone else sees it. Our eyes would be holes, our heart would understand, our ears would hear.
[00:23:56] Speaker C: That's powerful. I've actually got a question that's not, you know, in our list of questions, but something that you said about, you know, like, listening to God and strategies.
Could you share how you Activate that listening ear to receive and to hear from God. Because, you know, kind of along my journey and when I'm speaking to other people that I'm walking alongside with, that's probably quite a frequent question that comes up was like, how. How do you hear from God? How do you know that God is talking? How do you know that God is leading you or directing you or giving you these strategies or giving you this insight? So could you give us some practical tips of how that looks for you and what works for you? And maybe, yeah, others can exercise that a little bit more to hear from God in a more clearer way in
[00:24:53] Speaker A: different stages of life. I think that looks different. So when I was younger, that involved a lot of, okay, what were the things I could do in my specific skill set?
So in the lab, if I was good at, I was specifically good at one technology. So I was like, okay, how could I do this technology really well? How could I pipette these cells really well? So I'm able to get the data really well.
But over time, and currently, what that looks like is also an abundance of counsel, good counsel. So surrounding yourself with people who, you know, will think of the good of whichever organization you're in and would also think of the mission and vision of your organization, that becomes imperative to understanding how exactly you can make decisions that would impact those that you work with or work for.
[00:25:47] Speaker C: Thank you. So good counsel. Iron sharpens iron.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: Yes, very much. Ayesha and Zion.
[00:25:53] Speaker C: Yeah, Amazing.
[00:25:55] Speaker A: I think one other thing.
Always be willing to be a learner. So one of the things I'm blessed with is I'm surrounded by a lot of young adults in my life, and they keep me very sharp because they keep me learning.
So I think learning to learn and choosing to learn continuously then also enables us to be people who know what kind of strategy, what kind of plan we can outwork in our respective fields.
[00:26:24] Speaker C: I agree. But I find hanging around with young adults, you know, trying to keep myself young and relevant with them, when they start calling me auntie and they start calling Jim uncs, I'm like, what? No.
They call out the age, and I'm like, no, people, stop.
[00:26:42] Speaker B: Okay. So we started kind of touching on, I guess, discernment. So we wanted to stay in that space. And I guess sometimes we hear, when it comes to even careers, I guess, in the secular world as well, and just in different spaces and different areas that, like, you should follow where your passions are or where you're good at or what really excites you. And that's kind of how you know what to do in your career. In that sense, do you think that sometimes, when it comes to our faith, your faith, do you think that sometimes God reveals His will through what actually breaks our heart and not just potentially what excites us or what makes us really passionate?
[00:27:27] Speaker A: That's a great question.
When I was younger, in high school, if you ask, my whole family thought I should do something that ends up in an mba.
And I was like, no, I don't want to do an mba. I want to go be a doctor, serve in the underprivileged areas in somewhere around the world. And that's what I wanted to do. But, you know, sometimes moms know best and you realize that like 20 years later.
So even in my case, I think initially when we hear stuff like this, I chased my passion, I chased what I thought because I wanted to help people. And I was like, medicine is the best way to do it.
And that's how I chased it. But God was kind in the fact that he understood my ultimate goal was still to help people.
So along the way, he built in me what he needed me to have so I could carry the next role that he would lay before me in leadership.
So I don't think passion is something we should. We should chase passion, yes. But we should be aware of the fact that God would grow us even beyond our passions. Because ultimately it's not about just what we love. It's about what his heart is and what he purposed for us when he created us.
[00:28:52] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
And I guess on that as well, how do you discern when to, like, step in and act based on what you feel like God is revealing to you?
When do you think it's actually a time to, like, wait on God?
[00:29:12] Speaker A: Do you mean about next steps and moving careers or something like that? Or just life in general?
[00:29:18] Speaker B: Like, more so when it comes to careers, I guess a lot of the listeners, I guess, are probably quite interested in, like, I guess, working at God in their careers specifically. So I guess the question was more so around in our actual careers or the work that we do.
Yeah, just being able to discern kind of when to act and when to actually just wait on God.
[00:29:42] Speaker A: I think before we act or wait, it means there's something that we are asking for and we want a response. Right. So to be found in our daily work, doing it to the very best of our abilities honors God. And then after. After that, we place our desires before Him. So that's what this is, what I've done in my life I did the very best, whether it was in pipetting water, pipetting cells, doing data analysis, learning python codes, whatever it was, what I could do. To the very best, keeping Excel sheets, like a plethora of things when it comes to research, did all of that to the best of my abilities. And then when there was a time when I was offered the opportunity to lead a couple more projects, to manage multi site projects, took that on as well. And all the time it was hopping, it was there somewhere in my mind, okay, fine, I want to be a little bit more independent. I want to do something on a slightly larger scale.
I put that before the Lord. I put that before the person that was leading me.
And God in his kindness gave me favor with the people who I was being led by at that point. And they gave me the opportunities to grow in my leadership and in management.
Fast forward. When I had to make a full fledged career shift, I think what practically the things that I did was one, I took time. I didn't make that decision in one or two weeks. I took about four and a half months and then I pivoted after another six more months into full time. So you're talking about 10 months before I actually fully shifted my career into something else.
Second, as I was making that decision, I took counsel from those who I trusted, had my best in mind, as well as people who I trust to have good counsel, sound counsel, who hear from the Lord's side. I took counsel from them.
And third was like I said in the beginning of the talk, I look back at do I have what is required for this next skill set for this next job or this next role?
So when I was looking back, I was like, okay, Lord, thank you. You have put these things, you led me step by step into the next thing, which allowed me to be prepared for this next role.
[00:32:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: So practically it would be those three things for me.
[00:32:09] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I do, I love that. I do think that like in every season that we're in, even if it's we're in the period of like waiting on God, or sometimes I guess people could even be unsure if this is what God is saying at this point. Like there's always something that we could be doing in that period to just be open to what God is preparing us for in the next season and just be willing to like take steps even in those situations. So I definitely agree with you there and that was really helpful. Thank you. Really insightful.
[00:32:44] Speaker C: Can I ask Susan, actually, because you've mentioned it a few times now, counsel, so you Have. I don't know if it was intentional or if, you know, God has provided and surrounded you with, you know, people that you honor and you value and your mentors and people that counsel you.
But I, I guess along that line, I wanted to ask you, you know, how have you pursued or sought out counsel? And then who are these kind of faith heroes that you value so much?
You know, if you want to share names or talk about a particular person. But, you know, why has counsel been so important to you? Because we've. We've had a few conversations with people on this podcast and actually, you know, you know, people have talked, said that they've spoken to their. Their partner or their mum or. But you've talked quite a lot about this group or this council.
Can you tell us a little bit more about these people in your life that, yeah. Steer you and guide you?
[00:33:52] Speaker A: Sure. So I think council is a very important aspect of my life for two reasons. One, I was raised in a home where counsel was never directive, but counsel was supposed to be something that was either confirmatory or gave you insight. So it made me want to seek more counsel. It wasn't forcing me to do something. It was just giving me insight into another aspect of a situation that I may not necessarily have been looking at.
So who are these heroes for me? You mentioned faith heroes. They're not just faith heroes, because counsel for me is there are people who are not Christian. They've just really good leaders, and I look up to them as well. So a little while back, I mentioned about my grandfather. He is one of my.
He's no more. But his words of wisdom from the 18 years I've had with him still ring with me. My mom is very kind to often share a lot of what he has shared with them as well. So my grandfather is one person, and like I said, the big thing that he has taught me would be to think of everybody that works with you, not just your senior leadership, but ground up to think of everyone and to take everybody along in the journey. So he's one person. Otherwise, counsel for me are my mom and dad, and they play a big role because, as I said, they've never been directive. They've not told me, so this is what you should do. Pretty much from the time I was in seventh grade, and I visibly recall this, they have gone like, okay, this is what we think about the situation. The seventh grader in me obviously would be like, I'm sure I know better than you, but a couple of years down the lane, I've Learned better. So I do take their counsel. Doesn't mean I always follow it, but I seek after that wisdom.
So mom and dad would be one and then the other.
My earlier my boss. So Mark from Boston, he has been a very, he has had a very influential role in shaping my leadership because I've seen how he has given me grace, how he has given me opportunities. He has helped me walk into senior roles while walking with me, but also at the same time letting go of me so that I can run some of those races on my own. So Mark is definitely somebody who is in that role for me and definitely my current bosses, Bijuan Sekwa, in that role as well. They are sound counsel again for the reason that they are not directing, but they give me another side to the situation which then allows me to make an informed decision.
[00:36:38] Speaker C: Thank you. That's really great. That's really helpful.
Back to your role and you know, kind of your day to day and now as a CEO on this kind of frontline social impact role that you've said yes to, how has your understanding of God's heart for, you know, for people, for the vulnerable, for the marginalized, how has that changed or matured since you've started in this work?
[00:37:13] Speaker A: So I think similar to what I had said earlier, every time we have the opportunity to be front facing anywhere in the globe in terms of being able to help a person in need, we become closer to the need.
And in God's kindness, I think he breaks our heart. So the way in which I have changed over time, like the way in which this role has impacted me is because I see the need more, I see his heart more for these people. Like I understand how much more it breaks him and how much more he desires for all of us to live to the best of our abilities.
And we were created with purpose, every single one of us, that there was a plan for our lives. And I think he deeply wants each of us to walk in that purpose in our lives.
[00:38:08] Speaker C: I would, I would 100% agree with you. I mean, I sit on as a trustee for a children's charity here in the UK and you know, as part of the expectations for trustees is that, you know, twice a year we've got to go out to the projects and it's not just for the trustees, but it's also for the staff team. And sometimes, you know, when you're just in meetings and you're looking at board papers and staff, it can, you know, you could just kind of go through the motions and not be connected to the actual work that you're doing. But as. As soon, soon as you go to the projects, as soon as you spend, you know, a whole day with the young people, with the volunteers, with the team, it just comes alive to you. And you feel, as an individual, you feel recharged, you know, one knowing that actually the work that you're doing is so important, so vital. But then, as you said, it keeps your heart soft and open to what God wants you to be doing and not think, okay, you know, three year, 10 year ships up or whatever. But actually you come back saying, no, we're doing great work. There's still more work to be done.
So I would 100%, you know, echo. You know, what you say, Susan, which is, you know, for anybody listening, you know, just get involved. Just go find a cause, an organization that you're passionate about that God has been moving your heart to and get involved and then see it on the ground. And that just keeps the pain, passion, and the vision and the intention alive to. To do more.
And then I think, kind of another question for me before. I know T has got a couple of questions that she wants to ask before, you know, we could sit here talking all afternoon with you, but I. What I wanted to ask you also was it is overwhelming. The need is overwhelming.
And you've shared with us, like, how you guard your heart, the people that you surround yourself with.
You know, that you can sound this with iron sharpening iron.
But I want to ask you, actually, if you were to speak to your younger self, what would you say to your younger self, Susan, you know, about what lies ahead, you know, from the last couple of years that you've had to step into this role, would you do anything different? Would you have prepared yourself any differently? Or as you say, God in his generosity and his kindness actually has caused everything to work together as it should be. But would there be any words that you would give to your younger self?
[00:40:50] Speaker A: 100. I would tell my younger self to just calm down a little bit.
[00:40:55] Speaker C: I would do the same. I would absolutely do the same. Not to your younger self, but to myself.
[00:41:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I thank God.
So I was a very fearful person. I wouldn't be able to. I used to think of, okay, if I do this, how will that impact me? Fifteen years down the lane, and I remember there was. I was trying to do tax filings, and I couldn't understand. The very first time I was trying to do it, I wasn't able to understand exactly how to do some math. And I was like, Paul, what if I get this wrong and Paul's my brother and he looked at me and he's like, you barely earn about the poverty line. Just keep quiet.
So I think to my younger selves, just don't be so anxious, anxious about any failure, any mistake. Learn to do your very best.
Surrender whatever failure you have and rely on the fact that failure is indeed a stepping stone to success. As as much, as long as you choose to always get up from a mistake, don't beat yourself or don't beat someone else up about your mistake, I think you're good to go.
Don't repeat the same mistakes again as much as you can. That's all. That's probably what I tell my younger self.
[00:42:05] Speaker C: I love that hashtag. Failure is a stepping stone to success.
[00:42:10] Speaker B: And if you could leave the listeners with any encouragement or one encouragement, pick one about living out their faith in their sphere or wherever they are in their sphere and also just helping on this social impact, social justice space, what would that be? If there was just one encouragement that you would really want the listeners to take from this conversation?
[00:42:36] Speaker A: So I think the only encouragement I have is we are all called, regardless of what sphere we earn our income from, we're all called as Christians to take care of the widow, the orphan, the helpless, the vulnerable.
So that's regardless of whether we make our income from a hospital, we make income from social justice, social impact, whether you're a lawyer, whatever it is, as Christians in our faith, we are called to do that.
So my encouragement is if each of us can just take care of our city, if all of us within our faith can take care of each of our cities, then just imagine the impact that we could have globally. If each person decided to do something for their city collectively, we would have a global impact versus just a local impact, whereas our contribution is just that one drop which is towards our local community.
[00:43:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think there's a part that we can all play.
Even if it's not our day to day work or career. There is something that we can all do, I think which is a big takeaway we're taking away this season.
So thank you for that. And would there be any like a scripture or anything that you think sums up the heart of God for social justice?
[00:44:02] Speaker A: I think the one that I've mentioned repeatedly, which is to take care of the widow, the orphan, that's probably the one that comes to my mind all the time because that's not restricted to a social worker.
That's for all of us.
[00:44:19] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:44:20] Speaker C: One of the. One of the questions just off the back of, you know, what you've said, and a few of our other guests are saying is, you know, when you're saying what the scripture says, which is, you know, take care of the orphan, you know, go feed the poor, when you clothe those that need it, when you go visit the prisoners, like what you've done for me, you know, there's these amazing, you know, words and directions and directives that Jesus has given us. Why do you think it's so hard, you know, whether you're a believer or not?
Why do we almost separate, you know, that mission and that calling and that instruction that Jesus given us, say, with, I don't know, other aspects of the gospel? Why, when it seems so simple?
Why do you think in this day and age.
Yeah, why? Why has it been missed? Or why have we. Are we too scared? Are we too.
We don't feel like we could do enough? Is it. Is it because we think that maybe the problem is too big or it's someone else's issue to sort out?
Yeah. I just wondered if you had any thoughts on that, why we're not just doing what the word asks us to do.
[00:45:38] Speaker A: I think there's always that.
A couple of thoughts that come to mind. Like, there's always the thing about, I go to a soup kitchen. I feed a lot of homeless people every Saturday afternoon.
But these people are still going to be hungry through the week. So how does my.1 me going and serving one meal, how does that help?
But the way I was thinking about it is if I serve one meal, the next day, somebody else comes and serves. A third day, someone else serves. Each of us contribute. Each of us are doing a little bit.
If we are okay with the little bit, which will largely go unseen, then that would be okay. But oftentimes we think of our little bit as not contributing to a larger picture. So encouraging people to see it as. It's not. Little is a. It's a subjective definition. To do our part, whatever it is, big, large, however you define it, to do our part, if we can. If we can take care of that, that, I think, would address the issue. So volunteering becomes a big part of that. The other is time is often not easy to be given. Right. Like, that's the largest resource and the hardest one to give for anybody. Whether it's a parent or a high schooler that's busy trying to get into college or a young adult that has just taken up a job and needs to prove themselves. Time becomes the hardest Thing, So finding you don't have to do volunteering every day, but even at least once a week, or you see somebody on your tube ride in London or on a train ride here, you see somebody that's sitting by, if we can go chat with them, I think that would at least make up and make the day of the person that may be sitting homeless. So we think of these big acts, but maybe the smallest act of kindness, like what happened with the Samaritan, Good Samaritan is what we need to chase. Not the large acts, but the small acts. No harm in giving the millions to charity, but the small acts, like the good Samaritan did. Walk down the road, he saw somebody that was injured, took him to an inn, dropped him off, gave the money to take care of him. Same way we're commuting to work, we find somebody that doesn't have food, maybe go down to the local McDonald's or the healthy store nearby, buy them something to eat.
He's gotten one day's meal. But if all of us took care of that, then that wouldn't take too much of our time. It's something that happens as a part of our routine. And second is, I think we think that all of this work is independent of our carriers.
When I made a presentation to scientific community, I asked them the question of, we are creating these innovative cell therapies, drugs, everything, and we are costing it, but do we cost it? Keeping in mind the fact that there might be somebody that can pay only half a pound for this drug.
So in our secular.
Or so we call it, in our workspaces, when we think of solutions, do we keep the breadth of the economic gap in mind? Did that answer the question?
[00:48:54] Speaker C: Oh, he really did. You really did. I love the. The way that you broke down the Samaritan.
Like, we know we hear that story so much in church, but actually how you broke it down to how applicable it is to our daily commute, wherever we are, there is people along the way. Right. That are broken, that are hurting, that are. Yeah. Just ignored. I mean, I see them all the time in London. Whether that is someone asking for food on the streets or someone that you can see on the tube that's. Yeah. Hasn't had a great start to the morning. What could we do? So you really do. Oh, God, Susan, I'm gonna have to have a separate call with you just to talk more.
[00:49:44] Speaker A: I totally love that.
[00:49:47] Speaker C: Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Do you have any kind of final thoughts or anything else that you want to share? Or leave with our. Leave with our listeners about social impact, about the heart of God, or about how we can do more and get involved with vision, rescue.
[00:50:07] Speaker A: Yes, I think in God's kindness He has. I'm stealing from my pastor's line here.
In God's kindness, he has enabled us to be heaven's solution for earth's problems.
So we should choose to be open in whichever sphere of influence we have to speak out ideas of taking care of those who may not have a voice themselves.
So be bold.
Your idea is not invalid. Your idea is not too big or small. Whatever it is, your work is not big or small. Those are measures that we put big and small, high and mighty low. Those are things that we place on. Those are values we place on things but God doesn't.
The best that we can is what he asks of us.
[00:51:01] Speaker C: Absolutely. Heaven's answers. Thank you. Thank you, Susan. Thank you for your time. Thank you for you and the team and everything that you're doing.
Thank you for stepping into this calling. Thank you for leading with grace and wisdom and just being an amazing example to all of us of what, yeah, it looks like to say yes to God.
[00:51:27] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me. It was a fun conversation.
[00:51:31] Speaker C: Thank you.
